Hi, thanks for this forum and for the multi languages, it's very nice for me because i'm a french guy, leaving in Réunion Island, speaking a little english but no german at all...sorry :(
i've just bought a TR1 from 1981 that didn't run for 10 years...outch
I've cleaned the both carb (chocolate inside !),
tried to start the bike, nearly idle but...no
the seller told me that she was working well before staying in his garage..
i've tested the candles (new) i've got power...
don't know why she doesn't start
(i'm working usually on Ducati bikes..and they always run well ;)
if you can give me some advise it'll be well taken !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks anyway
Séb

Salut Seb,
un tel programme de traduction est grand, mais je parle français et anglais très bien, à cause de ma famille en Corse, mais ne peut pas écrire plus, mais il ya googel. Alors pardonnez la grammaire.

Pour votre question pourquoi commencer votre TR1 peut pas, il peut y avoir de nombreux points, mais après 10 ans de vie, est la première du gazogène à se décomposer complètement et nettoyer avec l'échographie, alors que vous devriez voir le dessin d'architecture du carburateur exactement ansehenm afin que vous et TOUS vis et les buses ausbaust avant le nettoyage. Parce que sous la MEMBRANE et le tube, il ya deux jets, on peut simplement manquer de tout.

Vous dites que vous avez le pouvoir vous mettre sur la machine, at-il été une batterie très complètement chargée, l'utilisation d'une voiture de commencer à lancer ce qui est nécessaire pour le TR1 20Amp d', et consommés très rapidement la puissance, avez-vous remplacé l'huile moteur complet ? Parce qu'après 10 ans peut être une masse dure, comme le sirop, qui a aussi son tour plus difficile. Fois la construction du filtre à air de telle sorte que le carburateur dans le premier Stratversuchen obtient correctement beaucoup d'air.
Traiter la machine comme une ancienne ducats, et de faire toutes les fois que vous feriez d'une vieille machine.
Plus vous nous donnez ici des informations, mieux nous pouvons vous aider.

bonne chance

Merci beaucoup pour ta réponse en français ;)
j'ai nettoyé 2 fois complétement les 2 carburateurs
J'ai fait le jeux aux soupapes
j'ai branché une batterie de voiture en série avec une autre batterie neuve de 12A
pour essayé de la faire démarrer et toujours rien, ont dirait qu'elle va partir mais non
surement le démarreur ?
J'ai du courant aux bougies, les bobines ont l'air bonnes.
ce qui est étrange c'est que j'ai l'impression qu'il n'y a pas d'essence qui arrive dans les cylindres pourtant j'ai vraiment nettoyé tout les carburateurs...
Je ne comprend pas du tout pourquoi elle ne part pas :(
Si vous avez des infos..??


in english :
THanks Odin for your french response, i've cleaned the carbs 2 times, checked the candles and there is power coming

i'm putting a brand new 12A batterie  + a car batterie to make her start
i've done the vavle clearance, no problems
it seem that there is no fuell coming inside the cylinders, candle don't smell petrols at all and they are dry...very strange ! and the carbs are very clean and fuell is coming to the carbs
i really don't get it why she doesn't start
maybe the starter motor ?

the old owner as made a switch to run the motor because the old one was dead, maybe with that...?
Many thanks anyway if you can help me with that ::... :( :(

Hello,

You should check the sparks. It's easily done. Just screw out the spark plugs, only one for the beginning. Connect the plug again and place it on top of the cylinder or near the frame. Then start the engine. You should see sparks coming frequently. If there are sparks, forget about the switches. Don't work on this too long, and be sure that the spark plugs stay in contact with some metal of the frame or engine because otherwise this may harm parts of the ignition system.
The battery You use has to have a certain capacity. With a too small battery the motor will not start, regardless of whatever batteries You place behind.
Are You sure that fuel is coming to the carbs? Did You clean all the jets? There are tiny channels in the bottom of the carbs. You got to clean them too. I would not use ultrasonic equipment, but lots of brake cleaner, a piece of thin wire and comp. air.
Did You try some spray while starting, just to see if the engine takes this?

good luck,

Stefan

Hi Stefan, thanks for your response,
ive checked and there is sparks on both plugs
when i put fuel directly inside the cylinder by removing the spark plugs and put them on again, the bike start well, but need to stay accelerated to idle...but start well..arrg  :'(

then it's the fuel line where is the problem i think

i've cleaned very well the both carbs : all parts taken apart with air compressor and acetone
I've just cleaned the fuel switch, but what is the "Pri" position ?
someone told me that fuel must bleed on this position by the second line who goes to the intake boot (between F carbs and F cylinder) and there is no fuel bleeding on this position maybe that the faulty ?

Hi,

the PRI-position is the only one where the fuel is free floating. All other psitions require vacuum for the fuel to flow. There is no position in which the fuel supply is really closed. As soon as the engine is running, it produces vacuum that sucks the fuel in.
If You don't see fuel running freely in position PRI, You got to disassemble and clean the part. What about the fuel tank? Is it rotten inside? Maybe use a fuel filter of sufficient capacity. Or is there an old fuel filter that causes problems?
You must excuse such questions, as I can not see for myself what is going on. But You seem quite close to get Your bike running.

hang on,
Stefan

by the way: The TR1 has two fuel cocks -- one for each carb. The hoses for the fuel supply run directly from the cock to the carb.
If You got only one, someone tried to "improve" the fuel system. Maybe You got a different fuel tank too. Can You see that there must have been a fuel cock on each side?

ST

I've taken apart the both old fuel filters, there is a tank from a Xv1000 Virago, not the original one
On the fuel line there is a separation with a sort of plastic "T" that goes to each carb
only one fuel cock on the right side
i've cleaned this fuel cock 2 times and on the PRI position still no fuel are coming out...then maybe i need to buy a new one...
the inside plastic things (don't now the name for a membrane in english...) seem pretty rusty and too thin...seem need replacement on this

when i put fuel by this line to the intake the bike start with no problems (except under 2000 Tr/mn it stop running..i must keep it high for her to keep idle well...)
i'm nearly to it, but still not.arrg
have a good end of the year and many thanks for all ;)
very much appreciated !  ;)

bonne année !

yes, if the membrane and the rest look like that, You got to replace it. Instead of replacing the whole fuel cock, You could buy a service kit. There are kits including the membrane and others who are not.

As I told You, in the bottom of the carb, means the carburettor bowl, are very fine channels. If these are blocked, the motor will not idle properly or not at all. After standing around for many years, I don't expect these channels to be o.k.. You got to clean them with thin wire and acetone, compresserd air ... .
Are there no holes in the carburettor membranes?
Another point: The motor will not idle when the carb holders don't fit properly. I think You would hear this breathing sound. But You should use a highly inflammable spray to make sure they fit tightly.

good luck

ST

salut Séb et bonne année,

est il possible, que tu as oublié de nettoyer les robinettes à essence et les filtres au dessus du pointeau situé sous le bras de flotteur?

Olaf

crazy cow wrote:

salut Séb et bonne année, est il possible, que tu as oublié de nettoyer les robinettes à essence et les filtres au dessus du pointeau situé sous le bras de flotteur? Olaf

Merci pour ta réponse mais oui j'ai bien tout nettoyé, par contre sur "Pri" je n'ai pas d'essence qui coule ni du robinet ni de la seconde ligne sur la droite qui est branché à la pipe d'admission du cylindre avant
peut-être ça vient de là ?

Par contre sur mon TR1 de 1981 je n'ai pas le clapet de commande de mélange..c'est normal ça ?



et je n'ai pas non plus ces carbus et la vis de ralentit est à l'extérieur (c'est des Hitachi)

stefan stein wrote:

bonne année ! yes, if the membrane and the rest look like that, You got to replace it. Instead of replacing the whole fuel cock, You could buy a service kit. There are kits including the membrane and others who are not. As I told You, in the bottom of the carb, means the carburettor bowl, are very fine channels. If these are blocked, the motor will not idle properly or not at all. After standing around for many years, I don't expect these channels to be o.k.. You got to clean them with thin wire and acetone, compresserd air ... . Are there no holes in the carburettor membranes? Another point: The motor will not idle when the carb holders don't fit properly. I think You would hear this breathing sound. But You should use a highly inflammable spray to make sure they fit tightly. good luck ST

Thanks for your response , you mean the 2 long copper line near the main jet that goes to the bottom of the bowl ?, i've cleaned them properly with a air compressor and can see light threw them.
cleaned the carbs 2 times with acetone & air...
the intake are properly fitted to the cylinder and carbs, and when i put fuel in the intake boot, the engine start well except don't keep idle must keep it @ 1500 tr/mn

for the repair kit of the fuel cock, here in Réunion is very bad time to find parts..! maybe the fuel cock easily findable...
i've got a virago fuel tank and think the same fuel cock fixed to it's...
thanks for your response

i'm nearly done but still can't start the bike properly...gggrr !!
maybe need to replace both carbs with mikuni or elses...
the intake boot are surfacely cracked but still no air can come, i've repaired them with strong glue for the outside (inside they are clean)

Hi,

1. Forget about "le clapet de commande de mélange". It was good for nothing.

2. Yes, try this other fuel cock You got. It should work. If not, there are service kits on the internet.

3. most important: This channel that I'm talking about is inside the wall of the carburetor bowl. There is just a hole at the upper edge and another very tiny hole at the bottom to be seen. This is only for idling.

Cheers,

Stefan

Thanks Stefan for your response,
I'll double check the line inside the carbs bowl... i surely had missed it for sure :(
i think I'm good to dismantle the both carbs another time !...arrrrgggg


i only own one fuel cock, i'll find another one new on the bay or elsewhere...or if someone have one to sell/..?

i've got a big oil leak in my fork too, so i need to order the dirt joints and seal joint i think...
another strange thing the front brakes bleed screw don't have any hole inside...never seen that before ! usally i turn 1/4 turn to bleed the DOT..but there need to take of the screw...
don't know how to service brake with this...? :-?

Many thanks for your help, much needed !
will post some picture soon of my tr1/81 when more cleaned..

I think you are mixing things up a little bit.

The fuel tap works like this. In Position ON or RES, the tap is opened via vaccum from the intake manifold if the engine is running. The vaccum is run to the fuel tap via the slightly thinner rubber line. There should NO fuel run through that line in either position of the fuel tap. The fuel runs via the thicker rubber line into the carbs, in position ON or RES there should only run fuel if the engine is running (or if you suck on the thinner rubber line).

In position PRI (prime) the fuel should always run through the thicker line into the carbs, so this is the proper position to start an engine whose carbs have been dismounted or that has sat around for a longer while, because the carbs are then flooded with fresh fuel.

To check this, pull off the thicker rubber lines and turn the tap on PRI. The fuel must spurt out of the line quite strongly, it should not dripple. Otherwise, check and clean the fuel tap. Then refit the line and turn the tap on PRI again and try to start after a few seconds.

Then these channels in the wall of the floatbowl: I am 99% sure that they are "only" needed for the choke. If the engine is warm an running without choke, it takes its fuel via the idle jet that sits on the bottom side of the carb (under the floatbowl of course) besides the main jet.

Good Luck,
Georg

cbass wrote:

another strange thing the front brakes bleed screw don't have any hole inside...never seen that before ! usally i turn 1/4 turn to bleed the DOT..but there need to take of the screw...

This machine seems to have been maintained by a real expert... I think he has broken the bleeding screw and has replaced it by a normal screw.

Bye,
Georg

Thanks a lot George for all theses explanations about the "PRI" Fonction, i'm seeing a bit better now what it is...

Now another "great" things :
The starter motor doesn't engage anymore...a great ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiii make him heard when i push the start button...so happy I am...
seem like there is a gearing that is dead or no more teeth..(a bit like me..)...
the starter motor run well but not engaging anymore the engine...
do you know what was fucked up by trying to start her too much with no result ??? arrrggggggggggggggg

i think i'm good to take of the left carter to see what's in..
thanks for your help

Hi,

seems You got a ticket for the full version. Welcome to the TR1-Show.
After taking off the left carter You will find, behind a loose spring and some gears, the casing of the one way clutch, that belongs to the starter system.
My technical english is quite poor. But as nobody else makes a try ... .
This thing looks like a can. With some mechnical skills You can overhaul it.
Just open the can with pincers. You will find tiny springs and pin bolts inside. These bolts are damaged. If You find similar ones, You can replace them. The system will work again.
You are fucking far away there on Your island.

cheers,
Stefan

I'll tell You another funny story: This one way clutch is not even needed with the TR1. That's the best thing about it.
Some people block it by putting srews just through the casing in the inside. Others prefer welding/soudage.
Personally, I fix it as described. Because sometimes the welding points break or the screws get loose, and You wouldn't want to have this kind of trouble inside the engine. There are enormous forces at work, while starting this engine. And the whole starting system is not fit for this job and therefor is the major cause of problems, the TR1's weakest point. It must have been constructed on monday morning by a person who was really sick a nd didn't know what he was doing at all.

so hang on,

ST

stefan stein wrote:

My technical english is quite poor. But as nobody else makes a try ... .

Hehe. ;-) Just look at this image: http://koblenz-net.de/~horn/2009_tr1_treffen/bilder/cimg0204.jpg
The f... starter clutch is the foremost thing under the left engine cover.

If you want to replace the worn out rollers within the clutch, look out for bearing rollers. I don't remember the dimensions right now, but a few years ago there where rollers available that had the right thickness but where 1mm to long and had to be grinded off a little bit.

You can also weld the clutch together, i did so with mine and it works good.

Bye,
Georg