Hello, I seem to have a problem that I cannot decide what it is, most of the time my TR1 xv1000 starts fine but recently it just makes a click noise. I have added a photo to show what clicks. I took bike to the garage for the MOT (road safety test) bike started fine and rode good. when I went to collect the bike it would not start, just clicking, the battery was fully charged before I went there. I am pretty sure the battery is good after 24hr take off the charger it still shows 12.9v. any ideas what it could be?

The solenoid -which is shown on your Photo- has two coils inside. One is activated by pushing the knob -via  the small wire connected to the solenoid- and the lever push and click for a tenth of a second . Under normal circumstances then the other coil - fed by  the  big wire should be activated and push the lever the whole way and connect the starter to turn.. Electric magnetism is a nice thing, Mr.Faraday told us.  In most cases it is the Starter that is malfunctioning, if there is only a click-noise. The solenoid needs the high-power from the starter for function. Check the Brushes on the right side of the starter.  The best thing to do is buying a new 4-brushes Starter, they are not expensive via ebay and they work fine. Of course your solenoid may have a malfunktion, but i experienced that it´s in most cases the starter that causes the Problem,
Regards Ali

Thanks Ali, I have seen Arrowhead starters on Ebay but I wasn't sure if they were 4 brush. I will ask the seller.

Thanks again

Hello UKTR1,
you can use the starter from the XV1000 Virago, it fit´s plug and Play, and it´s a 4brush model. Only the big wire to the Solenoid must be changed.

Ali, i am not sure if you are absolutely right. Afaiu the solenoid has one coil that gets power (+12V) via the small wire if you push the startbutton, and it gets gets ground (-) via the start motor. I can emagine that this construction should make the starter turn slightly with the solenoid as a resostor if you push the button, which makes the gear wheel engage easier. When the wheels are angaged and the solenoid closes the connection of the big wire, the starter gets power and should turn. If the start motor is broken (soldering of the collector melted out) the solenoid does not click anymore. I know this from my own experience

So i believe the solenoid is stuck or the contacts within it are burned and do not close the connection reliably. Correct me if i am wrong.

Gredner the starter from the XV1000 Virago what year model will fit? or will all XV1000 Virago starters fit?

Thank you for all your replies

There are 2 different Models, one for XV 750 and some Viragos with a short shaft, one with a longer one . For the TR1 you need the one with the longer shaft. Sometimes i experienced a Problem fitting the Starter-clutch on to  the (new)shaft,  so i took off the shaft of the old starter and put it into the new one. I presume this will work the same when you have a short shaft model, and want to modify it for a TR, it is not very complex work.
@Georg:
es gibt meistens eine Einzugswicklung und eine Haltewicklung, siehe auch hier: http://www.kfz-tech.de/Biblio/Batterie_Generator/Magnetschalter.htm
jedenfalls wenns klickt ist meist der Magnetschalter in Ordnung.
Ich habe den M-Schalter aber noch nie komplett zerlegt, deswegen: alles Vermutung,
Gruß Ali

Sorry UKTR1,
Imade a mistake! Ididn´t mean XV1000, the XV1100 starter fits. The item numbers are the same. I use it for more the 20 years. My starter fitted plug and play.

Ali, ich hatte schonmal einen ausgelöteten Kollektor, da klickte auch der Magnetschalter nicht mehr. Ich hab dann noch versucht, mit der Nuss und einer Verlängerung, ob vielleicht nur das kurze dicke Kabel das vom Magnetschalter zum Starter geht, locker oder korrodiert ist. Mit der Nuss auf der Mutter kam ich mit der Verlängerung an den Krümmer, da klickte es auf einmal wieder weil der Schalter dann über die Nuss und Verlängerung Masse bekam. Der Anlasser drehte natürlich trotzdem nicht, dafür bruzzelte es lustig am Krümmer...

Ich hatte auch schon einen nur klickenden Schalter, da lags am Schalter. Den alten hatte ich noch aufgemacht, weiss aber auch nicht mehr wie der innen aussah...

Also imho hilft hier ein neuer Anlasser nicht. Wenn auch die 4K-Anlasser besser sind

I watched a few youtube videos and added another earth strap as explained here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3ZIHGhgyc8

I routed directly under the clutch housing using the wire clamps that are already there. it seems an easy, simple idea but I tried it and now the starter is fine.

Good to hear it is fixed.

Should the starter motor ever fail don't hesitate to replace it with a four pole motor. It is a huge improvement.

Regards
Kevin

Well I went for a ride yesterday and found that the earth lead modification has not solved the starting problem. I still seem a sticky starter motor.

I found this on Ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302243100927?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

My question is will this fit my TR1?  If not can someone offer a ebay link to a starter motor that will fit?

Thanks

Hi, from my view it should fit. It has the "long" shaft, and if you refer to the Manufacturers partnumber listed it includes "5A8" - which is the manufacturer code for XV1000 TR1.
But - before you buy a new starter Motor please consider the following: you mention that the bike just klicks, in the area shown on first pic on top of this discussion. Question: does the lever shown on the pic  move? about 10mm or more? This indicates that the solenoid works mechanically to engage the starter gears inside. If it just clicks but does not move, I would suggest the solenoid does not work properly, maybe because of missing ground connection. Other funtion of solenoid is to bridge the two thick wires coming from battery and going to the starter, to give battery power to the starter. Next question: while trying to start, is there any noise indicating that the starter spins without turning the engine or just the click? If there is no "spinning" noise two Options are possible: starter does not work and should be replaced or fixed, or solenoid does not bridge the two thick wires. This can be tested by bridging the two wires, or giving direct battery power to the starter Motor. If the starter Motor spins - it's the solenoid which should be replaced. If the starter Motor does not spin, it's the starter Motor.

regards
Jürgen

We had this recently with the TR1 of a friend. Solenoid clicked and the lever moved but the starter motor did not spin. We pressed and held the start button and bridged the two thick cables at the solenoid with a large screwdriver, and the engine started fine. -> Solenoid broken.

Thanks Jurgen , hornschorsch- I will check again this afternoon but from what I remember Solenoid clicked and the lever moved but the starter motor did not spin like hornschorsch says, so it looks like solenoid is broken. Are new solenoids available?  

Hello UKTR1,
New solenoids are avialable, but very expensive. With a Little modification the solenoid from Suzuki Vitara or Swift will fit.. We have had some Threads about it here.

Still I have problems starting my TR1. This time I used a second solenoid and this acts in the same way as the first solenoid.

Here is a youtube movie https://youtu.be/Va-t9EK8gv8

Still only clicking and move around 10mm but the starter does not spin or even make a sound. This was a used solenoid so it is possible thst it is faulty too. I am also using a second starter motor trying to solve the problem.

so now maybe the solenoid is wired incorrectly (but I do not think so) so I have added a photo. does the solenoid earth, that goes to the starter go on the top or bottom pole in the photo?

Gears inside the casing do not look worn and the starter bendix works correctly

Hi UKTR1,
if I remember right, the bottom one goes to the starter. top one comes from battery. However, the clip shows that the solenoid is working correct - mechanically. What about "bridging" the two thick wires? Did you check this? Can be done by bridging the thick bolts on the Solenoid with a screwdriver as described already earlier somewhere above in this thread by hornschorsch. Bridging the contacts should make the starter motor spin, even without ignition switched on, or pressing the start button, as this gives battery power directly to the starter. If the starter motor does not spin the issue is with the starter motor, not with the solenoid.

Jürgen

Thank you for your reply Jurgen. I did briefly try bridging the solenoid but just had lots of sparks and not starter turning. I will try again. I thought that the solenoid also should trigger the starter when clicking. This situation happened even with another starter although both starters are old.

Rick

Rick,
you are right, the solenoid should trigger the starter. bridging the solenoid is the check, simulating a working solenoid. If this also does not work, I suggest the starter is failing. For test only, connect the starter directly to battery to see whether it turns. If it does not - starter is the issue. If it turns - I have no idea what else to test.

Jürgen

> This was a used solenoid

I believe the most common reason for removing a used solenoid from a bike is that is does not work anymore. ;-)

If the solenoid clicks, the start motor is good, because the coil in the solenoid gets power over the thin cable and ground via the starter motor. If you connect the two thick cables at the solenoid with a strong screwdriver, the start motor must spin, even if the start button is not pressed. When you press and hold the start button and then connect the two cables, the engine should start. Conclusion: Throw solenoids away as far as possible and get a new one.

@ Schorsch: you are just partially right: Solenoid does not get ground via starter motor. There is no ground cable from Solenoid to starter Motor, and thick cable deliveres power to starter motor. Ground is being delivered via contact to Engine side cover. And - Solenoid bridges two thick cables inside when being engaged. There is the opportunity that contact surfaces are corroded and they don't bridge. This can be checked: is there any power Output on the shorter fixing bolt of Solenoid when the start button is being pushed.

Jürgen

I once had a broken starter, the tin-solder at the collector was melted out and the start motor did not spin but the solenoid also did not click anymore. Thus my conclusion, that the solenoid gets groud via the starter.

Hello Ricky

I have read the thread very carefully and the correct diagnostic approach is here. It will help to find if it is your solenoid or starter motor that is faulty.

Reference your previous note and photo. The live from the battery does connect to the big connector.

So here goes, I'm not being patronising just need to write it all down so it is clear in my own head.

The solenoid does two things. 1. There is a coil that pulls in an armature and 2. two contacts that are connected, by the armature, to energise the starter motor. (Hope that makes sense.)

If the starter motor is clicking then the solenoid coil must be OK and is pulling the armature in. So that side is OK. As the starter motor is not spinning you can't have a problem with the starter clutch or engagement gears in the side cover of the engine.

Therefore the two contacts in the solenoid may not be engaging. The way to test this is to place a screw driver or short piece of wire between the two large connectors on the solenoid. (As George has stated previously in the thread.)This effectively short circuits the solenoid. This definately works as I have just done this on my bike.

If the motor spins at this point your starter motor is OK. If the starter motor does not spin then your solenoid is probably OK and you may have a problem with your starter motor.

Hope that is all clear. Best of luck
Kevin

Thank you all for your help and comments.

The good news is with perseverance and your help I have solved the problem. I have used 2 solenoids but the problem still persisted.
Today I decided again to check everything. After swapping back to my original solenoid the problem seemed worse ! This time only a click from the relay under the seat. I decided to check all connections again, while checking the lead from the solenoid to the starter I noticed (when tightening) that the terminal bolt withing the starter rotated slightly, I didn't see this before, so I moved it until it was tightly in place then secured the cable with the nut. Eureka ! the starter now spins and the engine started. So it seems that despite checking everything several times the fault was one that could not be anticipated in the normal way. It is the starter at fault by a slightly lose terminal.

Thanks again
Rick