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Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder. (Read 9107 times)
steven.vuyk
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Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
16.12.13 at 08:31:47
 
Hi guys. I recently converted my TR1 to a single carb using the stock carb. (I Just split the two.)
also changed my conrod bearing. This was all over a period of 4 years. I flushed the engine and all that jazz and the timing is perfect but after riding for about 30 meters she starts to sputter on the front cylinder. This is with new plugs. What could be the cause? The floats are 100% on the carb.
Any ideas are welcome undecided

 
 
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nanno
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #1 - 16.12.13 at 10:12:27
 
Hi Steven,

there's not too many (read that as I know of only maybe one guy), who uses a single carb manifold and overall the tendency on this forum is more towards going for two smootbore carbs in order to gain some extra performance.

That said, can you swap the coils between front and back to see, whether the problem goes the same way (it would be the first thing, I would try to have a look at, as it is the only thing left that is individual to one cylinder.
What do your plugs look like, if they are very dark it could simply be, that you're killing them with a too rich mixture ?
Which manifold are you using ? I saw some pictures of manifolds, which were quite appaling realy, when it came to craftsmanship. If so, there's shouldn't be any gaps, weld beads or the like on the inside of the manifold.
Lastly did you overhaul your carb before install and no matter what, unscrew the choke plunger and clean out the seat ?
Do you run a fuel filter and which kind of petcock - if your engine stops of fuel starvation, it wouldn't surprise me.

As you see quite a lot to try out and find out. My best bet is on the electrical side, because that is becoming more and more of an issue nowadays.

Cheers,
Greg

 
 

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steven.vuyk
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #2 - 16.12.13 at 16:48:12
 
That all seems to make a lot of sense.
Thanks for the advice.
Will let you know if I find something.

 
 
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steven.vuyk
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #3 - 18.12.13 at 18:56:28
 
ok I swopped the coils and found that a wire was actually touching the body. fixed and ran it again.
I forgot to mention that I have to bump-start it every time for now.
When it takes it runs perfect for a while and its as if when I let off throttle it starts to backfire and eventually dies.
what should I check for first.
I haven't overhauled my carb so I guess it could be too lean at this stage.

 
 
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nanno
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #4 - 19.12.13 at 16:31:37
 
Sounds like the pilot jet is clogged.

Truth be told, the Hitacchi carb is just awful. Why don't you get yourself a nice Mikuni VM or if you want to stick with a CV-carb, a BS40 of a KTM/Suzuki DR/lots of other singles. They are much more suited to the case, than the stock Hitacchi.

I am in the process of converting to twin Mikuni BS40ies of a XV1100, because they are vastly superior in reliability.

Cheers,
Greg

 
 

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KINGPRAWN
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #5 - 23.12.13 at 12:52:24
 
Quote from nanno on 16.12.13 at 10:12:27:
Hi Steven,

there's not too many (read that as I know of only maybe one guy), who uses a single carb manifold and overall the tendency on this forum is more towards going for two smootbore carbs in order to gain some extra performance.

That said, can you swap the coils between front and back to see, whether the problem goes the same way (it would be the first thing, I would try to have a look at, as it is the only thing left that is individual to one cylinder.
What do your plugs look like, if they are very dark it could simply be, that you're killing them with a too rich mixture ?
Which manifold are you using ? I saw some pictures of manifolds, which were quite appaling realy, when it came to craftsmanship. If so, there's shouldn't be any gaps, weld beads or the like on the inside of the manifold.
Lastly did you overhaul your carb before install and no matter what, unscrew the choke plunger and clean out the seat ?
Do you run a fuel filter and which kind of petcock - if your engine stops of fuel starvation, it wouldn't surprise me.

As you see quite a lot to try out and find out. My best bet is on the electrical side, because that is becoming more and more of an issue nowadays.

Cheers,
Greg

How do you mount them????

 
 
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Manfred
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #6 - 23.12.13 at 13:52:08
 
KINGPRAWN and all others, please:

DO NOT QUOTE ENTIRE POSTS. Edit them down to the part(s) you are actually replying to!

Thanks
Manfred

 
 

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KINGPRAWN
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #7 - 23.12.13 at 23:17:50
 
Quote from Manfred on 23.12.13 at 13:52:08:
KINGPRAWN and all others, please:

DO NOT QUOTE ENTIRE POSTS. Edit them down to the part(s) you are actually replying to!

Thanks
Manfred

Please expand on the amount of type I am permitted ???

 
 
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nanno
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #8 - 23.12.13 at 23:39:11
 
Hi - mount what ?

Cheers,
Greg

 
 

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KINGPRAWN
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #9 - 24.12.13 at 10:59:39
 
Sorry.... How do you mount different carbs... Do you have them independant  and  use a cable  1 int 2 ????

 
 
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nanno
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #10 - 24.12.13 at 14:49:38
 
Yep, that's how I did it with the TM40ies. Two standard carbs (plus an adapter, but that's TM-specific, because the inlet was too short) and then two pieces of 1-into-2 splitters, one for the throttle cables and one for the choke cables.

I mean, of course you could come up with a linkage, but that would be a lot of engineering overhead for little gains. Strictly speaking… no gains at all. Best part of two individual carbs has got to be the fact, that you can just quickly take one out and tinker with it and re-install it.

Truth be told, if the Mikunis off the 1100 don't work satisfactory, I'll probably venture down that route on my everyday TR1 as well, just because it makes carb maintenance so much easier.

Cheers,
Greg

 
 

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Manfred
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #11 - 24.12.13 at 18:26:51
 
Quote from KINGPRAWN on 23.12.13 at 23:17:50:
Please expand on the amount of type I am permitted ???

You can of course write as much as you want. I just said to do reasonable quoting. As you can see in the previous post #8, one does not know what you mean if you just quote a full post.

Happy Christmas
Manfred

 
 

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I'm the computer guy, not the mechanic!
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steven.vuyk
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #12 - 12.01.14 at 17:08:08
 
Hi guys.
Its been a while.
Anyway I got a set of heikin cvk's off a kle 650. Measured 35mm on the ID on the motor side.
Got 96 main jet and 53 pilot.
Would these work if I changed the jets or drill them and if so what size should I go for.

 
 
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nanno
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #13 - 12.01.14 at 17:41:27
 
Why don't you get a Keihin of a KLR ? That's a single Keihin CVK 40 and would be a better choice. (Technically pretty much the same as the one fitted to a Sportster (and then you could roughly follow an 883's jetting), which should work quite reasonable.

I'd go (tongue in cheek) for a 135 mains and somewhere around the 40 mark with the pilots. But just slap them on and see what happens, it's not gonna end up in a straight nuclear meltdown, if the jetting is off. I'd wager a guess and say, the bike will start but start to hesitate at about half throttle.

Cheers,
Greg - by no means a carb-guru, just a tinkerer… (only to make sure, you don't get the wrong impression)

 
 

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steven.vuyk
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #14 - 12.01.14 at 17:50:36
 
Thanx Greg. I got them for free so lets check what happens... lol

Think I should ask the guy if he has the klr spares lying around too.

 
 
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Odin
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #15 - 12.01.14 at 19:57:11
 
I tried in last summer with a 40mm CV carburetor.
and was not satisfied, had a 46pilot, and 160 main jet, tried in other sizes.
Problem was always the Backfire, and from 40km to 60km was not doing well.
If it was then, it was like rocket, but very high consumption of petrol


Now I'll try it with a 36mmCVK, times examine what happens
with a 165 main jet

 
 
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steven.vuyk
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #16 - 24.01.14 at 18:42:02
 
Ok I tossed the KLE's carb and went back to the Hitachi. thought ill tinker with that first until I have exhausted all options.
I drilled my main to 1,5mm and left my pilot as stock. Got it running again but backfires if I flick the throttle at idle.
All other throttle positions are ok. If I get it past about 1/8 throttle and flick it she doesn't backfire.

 
 
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steven.vuyk
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #17 - 14.04.14 at 22:57:57
 
Hi all.
Hope you all well. I want toi know what your opinions are on the "Gunson colortune" tool... it looks to be of great help to setting carbs.

Will this help me into the right direction?

 
 
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nanno
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Re: Single Carb - sputtering on front cylinder.
Reply #18 - 15.04.14 at 09:17:53
 
I have a set and yep, they aren't exactly the worst tool in the world to get the jetting in the right ballparks. It's no dyno with a gas-analyzer, but when used with some common-sense you can achieve quite remarkable results. Especially in deciphering odd behaviour, such as too small pilot jet, paired with a too big main-jet and therefore running and idleing quite nice, but not performing well.

Cheers,
Greg

 
 

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