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Carburetor problem (Read 7626 times)
Benghan
Ex Member



Carburetor problem
27.03.17 at 10:11:27
 
I am desperately in need of help! embarrassed
I own a TR1 -81 and have the following problem.

When braking or going over a speed bump without a bit of throttle the bike wants to stall.
Whenever I do semi hard brakes the engine revs down and if I give it too much gas just after stopping the engine backfires and dies, sometimes so violently that the carb jumps out of the the intake manifold. What I usually have to do is jerk the gas two or three times quickly. On the fist jerk, you can hear the engine "struggle" and after the second jerk the engine revs and sounds like normal. I've have pulled the carbs many times in order to set the float level but without success. Every time I pull the carbs there is a little bit of fuel in the intake manifold on the air side of the carb to the rear cylinder.
Apart from the braking and speed bump issue, the bike runs fine. There is some occasional bakfiring when decelerating  and a little bit of fouling of the rear spark plug. Furthermore, if the bike sits for some time and I start it up and shut it down immediately it will only run on one cylinder when I start it up again due to a fouled rear plug.

I have replaced all vacuum hoses and fuel hoses, the carb has been cleaned using ultra sound, I have rebuilt the carb(jets, needles, pilot screws, etc).
After searching the Internet for quite some time I have narrowed it down to incorrect float level in the rear cylinder carb. I have tried to adjust this level without any real success. I have been pretty careful when adjusting the floats and have only done minor adjustments to the tang (maybe too careful, meaning no real adjustment). I did make sure to set the level according to the specs in the Haynes manual, by measuring from the top of the float to the mating surface(at least I think I did).

What do you guys think, is it float problem or something else?
To prevent the bike from dying whenever I brake I set the idle to approximately 1500rpm. This helped a bit but still, the bike wants to die during medium braking and dies completely during hard braking(panic braking).
I have synced the carbs and set the mixture screws with colortune.

 
 
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Bruus
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Re: Carburetor problem
Reply #1 - 27.03.17 at 11:50:08
 
Hi Bergan,
Did you ever check or replace the carburator membrane? Does the slide of both carbs revert with the same speed, if you move it up by hand?

 
 
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Gredner
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Posts: 802
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Bike: Tr1, ´81, grün
Re: Carburetor problem
Reply #2 - 27.03.17 at 12:10:55
 
Hallo  Benghan,
Have you searched for air leaks, are the intake plugs tightly attached?

 
 

Gruß Karsten
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Benghan
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Re: Carburetor problem
Reply #3 - 27.03.17 at 12:12:59
 
No, I haven't replaced the membrane and I have tried to move them by hand. The both feel the same. I did also think suspect the membranes a while back but after moving them with my hands I ruled them out. But now that you mention it I might replace them. Are busted membranes known to cause the problems I describe? If I'm not mistaken I did notice something that looked like a small bubble och dent in one of the membranes, approximately 0,5mm in diameter. But since they felt the same when moving them by hand I ruled it out.
But let's say that I have a small hole in the membranes. Could this cause fuel to overflow the carb when braking and also be the cause of fuel in the intake manifold on the air side of the carb?

I have searched for air least a couple of times with starter gas, but no leaks.

 
 
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Bruus
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Re: Carburetor problem
Reply #4 - 28.03.17 at 00:33:48
 
I have never ever heard of brakes effecting a carburator. Cheesy maybe if we'd talk about cars with powered brakes, but not at a bike!
So it has to be the change of the air flow, the change of RPM or the fuel in the carburator that moves while braking. Therefore I thought about the membrane...
Or the needles might not seal the Jets, so the fuel can pass them while breaking? But i've also never heard about this  Wink
maybe the needle of the floats does not seal properly? To mention another idea...
The fuel within the gas tank also moves while breaking. So maybe this could effect the pressure to the floats.

 
 
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Benghan
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Re: Carburetor problem
Reply #5 - 28.03.17 at 08:22:03
 
I never stated that the brakes were affecting the carburetor, rather that braking affectes the carburetor Grin
I will tear the carbs down during the weekend and go over all the seals and o-rings. Did a complete rebuild when I bought the bike 5years ago. I will take a closer look at the membranes, float level and needles and get back to you with an update. Thank you for the feedback!! Please let me know if you have any other ideas as to what might be the cause of my problem!

 
 
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Ali
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Re: Carburetor problem
Reply #6 - 28.03.17 at 08:25:18
 
It is hard to say what the reason is, since you have done everything. I would try  to remove the vacuum hoses from the petcock, close them and go for a ride with the cocks on PRI,
may be it helps, may be not.  What you describe sounds like a much too  rich mixture at idle,
Regards Ali

 
 

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werner r.
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Re: Carburetor problem
Reply #7 - 28.03.17 at 10:53:00
 
Quote from Ali on 28.03.17 at 08:25:18:
It is hard to say what the reason is, since you have done everything. I would try  to remove the vacuum hoses from the petcock, close them and go for a ride with the cocks on PRI,
may be it helps, may be not.  What you describe sounds like a much too  rich mixture at idle,
Regards Ali


I tend to Ali's theory, via a defective membrane in the petcocks can gasoline into the intake port. This error I had already.

 
 

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Benghan
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Re: Carburetor problem
Reply #8 - 28.03.17 at 11:35:57
 
Quote from werner r. on 28.03.17 at 10:53:00:
Quote from Ali on 28.03.17 at 08:25:18:
It is hard to say what the reason is, since you have done everything. I would try  to remove the vacuum hoses from the petcock, close them and go for a ride with the cocks on PRI,
may be it helps, may be not.  What you describe sounds like a much too  rich mixture at idle,
Regards Ali


I tend to Ali's theory, via a defective membrane in the petcocks can gasoline into the intake port. This error I had already.


Thank you for the replies! I replaced the petcock membranes last summer so they should be fine. I will definitely try your method anyway just to be sure Ali.
Any thoughts on measuring the fuel level in the bowls? Can this be done with the transparent hose method with the carbs on the bench or must this carried out with the carbs mounted on the bike and the engine running?

 
 
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Benghan
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Re: Carburetor problem
Reply #9 - 07.04.17 at 14:48:13
 
I received the last spare parts today after a long wait and because of that i wasn't able to take apart the carb before, so no status update.
What i have ordered is a set of new diaphragms(ebay) and new intake manifolds(original Yamaha) from my local bike shop.
Before i placed an order for the manifolds I went to my local bike shop to buy som o-rings for my old inlet manifolds. To get the correct dimensions we looked at the microfilm the shop had. There was no sing of the o-rings just a gasket. I told him that my manifolds have a small groove for the o-ring and therefore there must be an o-ring. But i could clearly see that there was just a gasket in the microfilm. I know that my manifolds are in bad shape so i thought that i should order a new pair of original manifolds while I was at it(i have tried the ones available at ebay but don't like them). All said and done, my parts arrived today and upon unboxing i noticed that the manifold kit included the o-rings. And sure enough there was a groove in the manifold for the o-ring. My question is this, since the exploded view in the microfilm clearly stated that there should be a gasket present should i use both the gasket and the o-ring? Or should i use just the gasket or just the o-ring?

 
 
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